cslewislover wrote:Fred, you are judging in the place of God, and not acknowledging what Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians. In 12:7-10, Paul writes, "Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good [he doesn't say "private" good here]. To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues." One person is given this, one is given that, all determined by the Holy Spirit. It goes on to say that the body has many parts. He's asking them, and now you, to accept that different faithful believers - all part of Christ's body - have different functions and we will not all have the same gifts. It's amazing to me that Paul has to say the same things over and over (lol). He then asks if all are prophets, etc. He means no, they're not. He just explained that, and then he says "but," referring to not everyone being prophets etc., "eagerly desire the greater gifts." He wouldn't need to say that if everyone had the same gifts.
You told BW that you never said that believers don't need to speak in tongues to show their saved, but then you say that ALL Christians speak in tongues. Great double speak!! You're saying all believers need to speak in tongues, so that means you need to speak in tongues to demonstrate salvation. This is not biblical. And don't think that I don't believe in tongues as a gift for today. I am one of the smaller number Christians who believe the examples I have heard of tongues that have happened today, as happened in biblical times. But the examples of this happening are few and far between. They were for the salvation or edification of someone. I also tend to believe the studies done by linguists relating to groups of people who speak in tongues - that they are very simple and can't be considered languages. The examples I have heard of, that have worked in people's lives, are where someone speaks in a (real) foreign language that they do not know, and someone near them was helped by God through it. THAT is from Holy Spirit.
When a person comes to believe in Christ, the Holy Spirit enters them. This does not at all mean that they will speak in tongues then, or even ever. I am moving this thread to one of the tongues threads that already exist, since many people participated in it and there is a plethora of information there. There's no point in repeating everything. I know what you had posted involved more than one topic, but your OP ended with this subject, so that seemed to be your point.
Csle,
To understand 1 Cor 11 to 14 you nee to see the context of the letter Paul was writing to the Corinthians.
The Corinthians were once Gentiles who were not used to “Church' meetings. The women were interrupting the meetings by asking questions, many were talking over each other and at times they were all speaking in tongues at once. So Paul told the Corinthian women to ask their questions to their husbands at home and showed them how to operate the gifts in a meeting..
Paul said in 1 Cor 12 v 7 that the manifestations of the Holy Spirit is given to ALL to profit the Church. All had some wisdom, some knowledge, some faith, all could speak in tongues, all could lay hands on the sick etc. But this should be done in an orderly fashion in meetings. One to speak on wisdom, one to speak on faith, some to lay hands on the sick, when you speak in tongues let it be 2 or 3 and let this be interpreted if there is some one to interpret etc. Usually in meetings the believers who were more accomplished in these gifts would operate them in the meetings (but all could to some degree) for the benefit of others in the church to help with their faith and growth in Christ. This was done so all things were done decently and in order.
Tongues are essential for our walk and growth in Christ. Paul knew this that is why he thanked God that he prayed in tongues (in his private time) more than anyone else in the Corinthian Church.
Paul also said that when he prayed in tongues that his mind was unfruitful or unable to comprehend the meaning. It is a prayer of Faith that gives us insight into the Kingdom of God.
Csle your quote “You told BW that you never said that believers don't need to speak in tongues to show their saved” is incorrect. I did not say this to BW.
I will not make a judgement on who God will save. But I will say this and that is to be in the Resurrection of the Saints you will need the Holy Spirit and walking after the Gospel of Christ to be in this resurrection. If you have the Holy Spirit you will be able to speak in tongues and have access to all the other gifts. If you do not have the Holy Spirit there is a chance you may be in the Second Resurrection after 1000 years and judged according to your works. (Rev 20)
When you come to Christ the Holy Spirit does not necessarily come into a person. It is a separate event after repentance. There are many NT scriptures that will show people who believe in Christ, yet have not received the Holy Spirit.
Fred
